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Post by Scrazz' on Jun 16, 2014 22:16:39 GMT
WHY DO YOU DO THIS DARKO. WHY DO YOU TORMENT ME WITH SPOILERS.
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Post by Darko on Jun 16, 2014 22:21:03 GMT
I have to give you tough love Scrazz, I could never spoil the moment when Tywin is finally forced to come to terms with the fact that his children all pretty much hate him and fail him at every turn, gladly so at this point.
Also, I guess he doesn't actually shit gold after all.. (that needed to be in the episode somewhere) Or what about the new mystery surrounding the Dead Mountain who was being stuck with needles by the mad ex-maestor who's doing god knows what blood magic to turn him into who knows what manner of horror.
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Post by Scrazz' on Jun 16, 2014 22:26:36 GMT
It's to much
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Post by Darko on Jun 16, 2014 22:32:29 GMT
WHY DO YOU DO THIS DARKO. WHY DO YOU TORMENT ME WITH SPOILERS. Pretty much sums up what's going on in this thread right now.
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Post by Scrazz' on Jun 16, 2014 22:37:32 GMT
You're killing me
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Post by Warork on Jun 17, 2014 4:48:17 GMT
In other news...This was one year ago today... Good times...Goooooooooood times. Also...a teaser for you Scrazz...to add to your misery:
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Post by Darko on Jun 17, 2014 11:35:51 GMT
In other news...This was one year ago today... Oh man.. seeing that again.. the feels.
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Post by Darko on Jun 17, 2014 14:06:44 GMT
Also, apparently it's an unpopular opinion but I honestly don't like Stannis. The guy's a bit of a moron in my opinion and screwed himself over repeatedly by not listening to Ser Davos. I would like to see Davos somehow usurp Stannis, but I know that's not his style. But I do feel like Stannis is going to get himself in a bunch of trouble with blood magic and the lord of light/crazy manipulative red woman and someone will have to deal with him, and the Lannisters are falling apart, the Starks are gone. No one can really stand in his way at this point other than Daenarys and she's busy learning to rule and not doing a very good job of it. Set up your own small council already! Having all those advisers is useless if you don't give them any authority... gosh darn. But damn, Daenarys is a fine looking woman, so I can forgive her bouts of stupidity.(We miss you Jorah! Very interested to see where he next pops up)
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Post by Warork on Jun 17, 2014 18:50:17 GMT
Also, apparently it's an unpopular opinion but I honestly don't like Stannis. The guy's a bit of a moron in my opinion and screwed himself over repeatedly by not listening to Ser Davos. I would like to see Davos somehow usurp Stannis, but I know that's not his style. But I do feel like Stannis is going to get himself in a bunch of trouble with blood magic and the lord of light/crazy manipulative red woman and someone will have to deal with him, and the Lannisters are falling apart, the Starks are gone. No one can really stand in his way at this point other than Daenarys and she's busy learning to rule and not doing a very good job of it. Set up your own small council already! Having all those advisers is useless if you don't give them any authority... gosh darn. But damn, Daenarys is a fine looking woman, so I can forgive her bouts of stupidity.(We miss you Jorah! Very interested to see where he next pops up) I actually favor Stannis for the throne. I have ever since the Battle of Blackwater. At that time it was mainly because Ned Stark knew what we all knew; that he was the rightful heir after Robert died. But over time it became for several more reasons, each one compounding upon the last. Simply put; Stannis is the last best hope that Westeros has got to defeat the enemy that they've been alluding to since Season 1: the Others. By the end of this season it is obvious by his actions (which I will not describe because spoilers) that he is committed to the well-being of the kingdom first and gaining the throne second (a trait not shared by any of his competitors, not even Daenerys.) "Lord Seaworth is a man of humble birth, but he reminded me of my duty, when all i could think of was my rights. I had the cart before the horse, Davos said. I was trying to win the throne to save the kingdom, when I should have been trying to save the kingdom to win the throne.""Demons made of snow and ice and cold. The ancient enemy. The only enemy that matters."From the lore we see that he is a capable military commander. In Robert's rebellion, he held against a ten thousand man siege of his home castle at Storm's End with five hundred men for an entire year and nearly starved to death because of it. Did he do it out of pure stubbornness or some sort of misplaced sense of honor? No. He did it because If Storm's End fell then Robert's ancestral homeland would also fall and it would go some way to discrediting him from his claim to the rebellion's legitmacy. Also he and his men may have been suffering behind the walls of their castle but strategically he was winning an important battle by holding the entire Tyrell host there at the castle. If he had folded the army could have aided Rhaegar Targaryen at the Battle of the Trident and the rebellion could have turned out much differently. Stannis does not do things out of pure blind pig headedness as people who watch the show seem to think. He has a supremely strategic mind and is very intelligent. He also has his own advisers and listens to them from time to time! A former Baratheon bannerman says this about him in the books: "Robert was the true steel. Stannis is pure iron, black and hard and strong, yes, but brittle, the way iron gets. He’ll break before he bends."to be fair, I think he's wrong. Stannis does bend more than once to the advice of Ser Davos and yes, even Melisandre. Although I would like to argue that due to the nature of the show, it makes Stannis seem more vulnerable to manipulation by the "Red Witch" but this is not the case. He quite explicitly states a few times in the books and even in the show that the only reason he keeps her around is because her god gets him results. For a long while, Stannis was not in a position to compete for the throne, he didn't have enough followers...but we all know how that turned to his favor and we all know why. Stannis is a man who believes that the end justifies the means. On to Ser Davos. I believe it is very telling that Stannis would choose Ser Davos as his closest lieutenant over any of the other nobility he has with him. Davos is lowborn but Stannis, a claimant to the throne of Westeros, has chosen him to be his Hand. This is something unheard of in the culture that they share but Stannis doesn't care. He's seen Davos' wisdom and effectiveness when making strategic decisions. Davos is smart and loyal and that's all that matters to Stannis, he doesn't care if the man isn't of high birth, all he cares about is that the man can do his job and I think that strength of judgement is important for any king. Now sure, Blackwater was a failure for Stannis but the show made it look like he blindly followed the advice of Melisandre and ended up getting his army smashed and I don't think this was the case. The fact was, he had a good shot at taking the city even with Tyrion's Wildfire trick and it was only due to the very badly timed (for him) interdiction of Tywin's forces that he failed. Even then, he was able to get away with some of his forces intact. Moving on after Blackwater with the war of five kings winding down and the events of this season playing out...what Davos said to the representatives of the Iron Bank is true...the last best case for a Westerosi king is Stannis Baratheon. Everyone else with even a lick of credibility or intelligence is dead or gone and the only other serious player, Daenerys is starting to get in over her head. So in short, the show makes Stannis look a bit stupider than he really is mainly because of the way the plot has to be condensed for time. In reality, I think he's the last best hope that the Seven Kingdoms wont become the Seven burnt holes in the ground...or worse...the seven cubes of zombie ice.
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Post by Darko on Jun 17, 2014 19:03:08 GMT
Well written, Warork, you've convinced me a fair bit there. But as you made many examples of, the show doesn't really do him justice next to most other characters on the show (because the producers play to fan favourites, giving so and so x amount of screentime).
I'll be watching him more closely in any case. It is to his credit that he has survived when so many of his competitors and rivals have fallen. In terms of status and experience, very very few can come close to him now.
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