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Post by imposter101 on Feb 20, 2014 23:25:44 GMT
If the men truly believe in the cause of liberty, they will know that their actions have in the end, taken away the liberty of others. They knew from the beginning that this job might end in their deaths. I would kill them, because I am standing for liberty in ether way.
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Post by imposter101 on Feb 20, 2014 23:27:55 GMT
Some would consider than delusional, not charming. I agree. But sometimes coming out as an idealist over a realist has won me more friends, than enemies. The quality of a friend is what matters to me. I'm quite sure this would led me to be friends with people I would probably not like in the first place.
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Post by Asherian Command on Feb 20, 2014 23:32:09 GMT
Ash, you keep repeating yourself. You also state what you would do yet you doubt it, in fact even ideally support the opposite. Yet, I'm fairly sure all of your points have been answered thus far. I'm pretty sure parts of it haven't. Plus. How would you feel if you had to bludgen a man to death? With a blunt weapon? Could you really take a life? Could you really take the life of three men. Three of your own people. People you grew up with. People that you knew and saw every day. This is a small town so everyone knows each other. You probably knew them well, their children, everything. Could you really take their lives with your own hands? I doubt everything very much so. I question constantly. Like I should. You should always question. We do not know exactly what might happen. We will never know what might of happened if we killed those three men. I raise this point. "Who is to say the officer will keep his promise in the first place?" What is to stop the officer after you have killed those three men from killing the entire town? What would happen if you quote a german philisopher? Would the Officer pause? And reconsider? What would happen if you say a german phrase? What if? There is a bunch of these questions that I raise. It is such a situation that either you look at it there is always a possibility of dying. We are just dust in the end. Anyway I love discussing philosophy and discussion of ethics. I always find it enlightening. It is just eye opening to see peoples different opinions on certain matters.
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Post by imposter101 on Feb 20, 2014 23:35:03 GMT
Ash, you keep repeating yourself. You also state what you would do yet you doubt it, in fact even ideally support the opposite. Yet, I'm fairly sure all of your points have been answered thus far. I'm pretty sure parts of it haven't. Plus. How would you feel if you had to bludgen a man to death? With a blunt weapon? Could you really take a life? Could you really take the life of three men. Three of your own people. People you grew up with. People that you knew and saw every day. This is a small town so everyone knows each other. You probably knew them well, their children, everything. Could you really take their lives with your own hands? I doubt everything very much so. I question constantly. Like I should. You should always question. We do not know exactly what might happen. We will never know what might of happened if we killed those three men. I raise this point. "Who is to say the officer will keep his promise in the first place?" What is to stop the officer after you have killed those three men from killing the entire town? What would happen if you quote a german philisopher? Would the Officer pause? And reconsider? What would happen if you say a german phrase? What if? There is a bunch of these questions that I raise. It is such a situation that either you look at it there is always a possibility of dying. We are just dust in the end. Anyway I love discussing philosophy and discussion of ethics. I always find it enlightening. It is just eye opening to see peoples different opinions on certain matters. These are the people that threw fellow Germans into ovens.
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Post by Asherian Command on Feb 20, 2014 23:35:45 GMT
I'm pretty sure parts of it haven't. Plus. How would you feel if you had to bludgen a man to death? With a blunt weapon? Could you really take a life? Could you really take the life of three men. Three of your own people. People you grew up with. People that you knew and saw every day. This is a small town so everyone knows each other. You probably knew them well, their children, everything. Could you really take their lives with your own hands? I doubt everything very much so. I question constantly. Like I should. You should always question. We do not know exactly what might happen. We will never know what might of happened if we killed those three men. I raise this point. "Who is to say the officer will keep his promise in the first place?" What is to stop the officer after you have killed those three men from killing the entire town? What would happen if you quote a german philisopher? Would the Officer pause? And reconsider? What would happen if you say a german phrase? What if? There is a bunch of these questions that I raise. It is such a situation that either you look at it there is always a possibility of dying. We are just dust in the end. Anyway I love discussing philosophy and discussion of ethics. I always find it enlightening. It is just eye opening to see peoples different opinions on certain matters. These are the people that threw fellow Germans into ovens. Then why the hell would they keep you alive if you had three people from your own number who were spies and traitors? Alive?
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Post by Darko on Feb 20, 2014 23:38:42 GMT
Ash, you keep repeating yourself. You also state what you would do yet you doubt it, in fact even ideally support the opposite. Yet, I'm fairly sure all of your points have been answered thus far. I'm pretty sure parts of it haven't. Plus. How would you feel if you had to bludgen a man to death? With a blunt weapon? Could you really take a life? Could you really take the life of three men. Three of your own people. People you grew up with. People that you knew and saw every day. This is a small town so everyone knows each other. You probably knew them well, their children, everything. Could you really take their lives with your own hands? I doubt everything very much so. I question constantly. Like I should. You should always question. We do not know exactly what might happen. We will never know what might of happened if we killed those three men. I raise this point. "Who is to say the officer will keep his promise in the first place?" What is to stop the officer after you have killed those three men from killing the entire town? What would happen if you quote a german philisopher? Would the Officer pause? And reconsider? What would happen if you say a german phrase? What if? There is a bunch of these questions that I raise. It is such a situation that either you look at it there is always a possibility of dying. We are just dust in the end. Anyway I love discussing philosophy and discussion of ethics. I always find it enlightening. It is just eye opening to see peoples different opinions on certain matters. Now you're just plain speculating. Keeping it to the facts presented in the scenario to answer the simple ethical side of it, I believe it is morally right to do wrong for a greater good. As for whether I could actually kill them? Honestly I believe so, especially when there are armed soldiers scaring the living shit out of me and my survival instinct well and truly kicks in.
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Post by imposter101 on Feb 20, 2014 23:40:29 GMT
These are the people that threw fellow Germans into ovens. Then why the hell would they keep you alive if you had three people from your own number who were spies and traitors? Alive? Then why the hell haven't they shot me already? It was pretty clear what happened to every village or town that the Waffen-SS or Wermacht found spies or partisans in, or in close proximity too. Everyone died.
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Post by Asherian Command on Feb 20, 2014 23:47:25 GMT
I'm pretty sure parts of it haven't. Plus. How would you feel if you had to bludgen a man to death? With a blunt weapon? Could you really take a life? Could you really take the life of three men. Three of your own people. People you grew up with. People that you knew and saw every day. This is a small town so everyone knows each other. You probably knew them well, their children, everything. Could you really take their lives with your own hands? I doubt everything very much so. I question constantly. Like I should. You should always question. We do not know exactly what might happen. We will never know what might of happened if we killed those three men. I raise this point. "Who is to say the officer will keep his promise in the first place?" What is to stop the officer after you have killed those three men from killing the entire town? What would happen if you quote a german philisopher? Would the Officer pause? And reconsider? What would happen if you say a german phrase? What if? There is a bunch of these questions that I raise. It is such a situation that either you look at it there is always a possibility of dying. We are just dust in the end. Anyway I love discussing philosophy and discussion of ethics. I always find it enlightening. It is just eye opening to see peoples different opinions on certain matters. Now you're just plain speculating. Keeping it to the facts presented in the scenario to answer the simple ethical side of it, I believe it is morally right to do wrong for a greater good. As for whether I could actually kill them? Honestly I believe so, especially when there are armed soldiers scaring the living shit out of me and my survival instinct well and truly kicks in. Staying factual doesn't really help in a Philosophical debate. Mostly in part to the fact we are talking about the german army here. Who have not so fabulously track record! (not being racist as I am quarter german) If we stay with the facts. Why would they give you the gun in the first place and go through the process of emptying the gun? Why would they go through this process? There isn't a greater good. Tons of times doing it for the greater good just ends up with wrongs and evils. There is no greater good here. Because why would you trust him. If sees you pick up the rifle and kill those men. What is to stop you from beating the officer to death? In the officers mind, why wouldn't he do this? Why would he leave a town that is a potential threat? The greeks during that time were resisting nazi forces. Why would he give any armistice to this town. Why would he care? He's a soldier. A weapon of war. He's just doing his job. In his own little demented way. He would not question killing you and this town for the greater good. Don't bring in the option for the greater good. John Donne once said: "No man is an island, entire of itself; every man is a piece of the continent, a part of the main; if a clod be washed away by the sea, Europe is the less, as well as if a promontory were, as well as if a manor of thy friend's or of thine own were; any man's death diminishes me, because I am involved in mankind, and therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls; it tolls for thee." There is many things with this issue and this situation. We do not truly what would happen. All that we do know is that we cannot trust the officers word. He's already lied to you when he gave you the rifle. He was the one who made you bludgen and kill those three townsfolk.
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Post by Asherian Command on Feb 20, 2014 23:48:05 GMT
Then why the hell would they keep you alive if you had three people from your own number who were spies and traitors? Alive? Then why the hell haven't they shot me already? It was pretty clear what happened to every village or town that the Waffen-SS or Wermacht found spies or partisans in, or in close proximity too. Everyone died. Yeah someone gets it! Because what does a child like to do with his food? Play with it first. Have some entertainment, put on a show! Put on something that will lighten up their day!
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Post by Darko on Feb 20, 2014 23:49:53 GMT
I'm out, I haven't got the time or energy to dedicate to a discussion that continually escalates even after the topic itself has been answered.
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