Post by Deleted on Jul 31, 2015 4:28:10 GMT
Ok, you keep saying things like "You can't go in without thinking", "It's ultimately by the player's decisions" and "it's a game about teamwork". Let me tell you what's wrong with that.
The first two quotes. I never got a chance to act. Just take that in. Make sure you understand the core element here.
I, the player. Me. Korsera. Never got a chance to act. I, Korsera, never got a moment to make a move in. I didn't get to move to a more advantageous position. I didn't get to take defensive actions. I didn't get a chance to not just stand there. I had no agency. My death was, effectively, railroaded.
I had no control. That is the problem. So don't sit there telling me what I could have done or how to play the game when it's you who took any agency and decision making from me.
The first two quotes. I never got a chance to act. Just take that in. Make sure you understand the core element here.
I, the player. Me. Korsera. Never got a chance to act. I, Korsera, never got a moment to make a move in. I didn't get to move to a more advantageous position. I didn't get to take defensive actions. I didn't get a chance to not just stand there. I had no agency. My death was, effectively, railroaded.
I had no control. That is the problem. So don't sit there telling me what I could have done or how to play the game when it's you who took any agency and decision making from me.
except all three of those quotes tie in together, meaning something different as a whole then separate. yes, i should've gotten insight on where everyone would be, but in the end someone mightve still gotten screwed over. yes, sorry, you didn't get a chance to act. sometimes that happens. you got in that position because your character simply didn't see it coming.
and i was talking, in part, for the game as a whole. it IS a team game, through and through, and because people played the team part poorly, their down a character, plain and simple.
you didn't get to move because people made anticancer decisions that made certain Hounds attack due to openings, and people decided to help certain characters instead of yours.
It's not down to player skill when the player physically cannot make choices.
yes, not your skill, but other players skill in thinking was just as involved and this time it fell through.
I'm an honourable gamer. I take my deaths as needed, but only when they're fair. I do not consider this death a fair one. That's why I'm mad.
i dont know you well enough to trust your own judgement on this matter.
As for the teamwork bit? Sure, that's fine and fair - to a degree. But the thing is, it shouldn't fall to the players higher up the order to literally babysit the other players. Example: Cashdash orders everyone to group around Lord Harrab. Fair call, I'll move there for jolly co-op- never mind, I'm dead.
except this is a tough RP i made clear to the point cash already has a backup character and is based on teamwork, where in no way should you expect to get by on your own. its not babysitting its actually helping your teammates and working together, through and through.
Now, if I'd been a dumbass and decided not to move, then the death would have been earned. I didn't work with my team, and decided to stand alone against a superior force. In that instance, the death is fair. But I never got the choice. Should any other character have to endanger themselves just to secure me? No, they shouldn't. In fact, I'm glad no one tried to help me. As far as I can tell, we would have ended up with two dead characters.
would they? very possibly not, but its always a possibility yes. and wrong, characters should and will have to work together and help eachother out. your not an invincible hack and slasher like in so many other games in this, and neither is anyone else. if you think you can help another player whos in trouble, there is absolutely no reason not to.
And just to really clear things up, you placed us on the map, decided how many wolves there were, where they were hiding, who they were attacking, knew initiative orders and so on. I never got to act, because you decided that a fuckton of wolves would kill me off before I could literally even blink.
i apologized for the map thing, that part was my mistake.
and yes, i decided when they attacked, but actually their positioning was somewhat random, and who they attacked and when was based on many factors,including people leaving openings, like milo turning his back on one despite having visual proof of where they all were.
if you look,i constantly change readiness based on actions, if they had shot the wolf off you,you probably could've moved into a more defensive position, ans as everyone had seen, these things aren't hard to kill. but your team decided saving you wasnt a priority, or just didnt think about it. hopefully next time everyone will.
Rant(?) over, this leaves another problem for you. I have literally zero investment in anything any more. Why should I make a character when, for all I know, you'll just kill them off in the middle of the night with another targeted "rock fall" moment? Or decide they don't have enough experience to swing a sword properly.
the biggest and only real problem is yes, i shouldve gotten insight on positioning, my readiness order needed work that ive already said im doing, and players were given a loose mechanic they could take advantage of, but because it was not outright told they went along with typical "one move per" mechanics, which ive explained now is not how it works. for that i apologize, but hopefully now people will know not to abandon allies and that you can be a bit more in depth with how much you actually want to accomplish.
Hell, Halonatchos, I'd watch my back if I were you. I remember Milo saying something about not being too experienced in combat. Unless you get an 80's montage going, you could bite the dust next.
anyone dying is a possibility, as explained he got in the position due to overlooking a possibility, but his ally got him out of it. teamwork is a very good resource in a game where death is easy to come by and when you see others in a bad spot.
in the end, obviously people have different opinions on this matter, and obviously no ones perfect, but in this instance its was an avoidable death that was simply based around a smidge of bad luck and me not getting insight in the begging, and player choices causing certain events. as Gm i think it was in no way unfair for the game i put forth and told everyone it would be, and for the positions and option i gave the Team to be able to do.
im sorry your first experience on this site ended in a good character dying, but you joined a game where it was the possibility and in the end, events lead to your characters death being the case. you can try again, realize you obviously made a mistake playing a 'meat grinder' as cash likes to put it, or you can look into another game someones running.
in the end obviously everyone underestimated the difficulty of this game, and i hope this fight will let all remaining players be more prepared, and for any new or returning players to be more prepared aswell.