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Post by Deadshot on Aug 14, 2016 18:40:04 GMT
As promised, first Chapter has been uploaded and its a contender for the longest post I've ever made here, weighing in at around 5000 words. Apologies for the format, but hope you all enjoy it! Feedback welcome here as always!
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Post by Deadshot on Aug 19, 2016 23:01:19 GMT
Hi everyone, just a reminder that Chapter 2 gets posted in around 48 hours from now. The chapter is fully written, just some tweaking to do and it will be finalised. I'm having a lot of fun writing this so I hope at least 1 person is enjoying it as well. If you haven't yet had a look, chapter 1 is up here darkstormroleplaying.freeforums.net/thread/658/deathwatch-aftermathPlease feel free to leave a comment on this thread (keep the other one free for the actual story please!) if you like or don't like it, I'd really love feedback either way! Cheers fellas!
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Post by Deadshot on Aug 21, 2016 18:13:26 GMT
Hi guys, just posted up Chapter 2, click here for a quick link darkstormroleplaying.freeforums.net/post/12225/threadI know I keep asking but I really would appreciate some comments back, even just a few words would be great. I know Darko is getting around to read Chapter 1, and I do appreciate people have busy lives, I just really need some feedback on what I'm doing right or wrong or just a general "I like it." Everyone here is a great writer, you're opinions means a whole lot to an aspiring writer so please do leave a comment if you have the time. If you haven't yet read Chapter 1 you can get a quick link to it darkstormroleplaying.freeforums.net/post/12212/thread
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Post by Darko on Aug 22, 2016 21:14:16 GMT
I'll keep my analysis of the first chapter simple, respectful but worthwhile, sticking to my main points. I know you want constructive criticism so I won't sugar coat it either.
1) Your writing is superb grammatically and from all technical perspectives, although you should proof-read a few more times. Simple typos here and there don't ruin the piece but certainly break the flow, and I know you are trying to maintain a very high standard with this project of yours. We all need a reminder to double or even triple-check our work now and then.
2) I get it, you're trying to set up the characters and their initial relationships, as well as Renzo's entrance as an outsider to this team. Your descriptions are good, no faults there, and all throughout you do a sterling job of maintaining the atmosphere of the setting, your words definitely paint a nice, clear image of the location. However for the first half of the post, it reads rather ponderously and is very blocky. For an introduction to a story you want to grab the attention of the audience immediately. A great man once said 'brevity is the soul of wit,' - in this case, it can be applied. I feel like you could have cut down on a lot of the bulk and focused on establishing these characters in subtler ways - gestures, metaphors, actions that define them rather than simply dialogue and passive descriptions observed from Renzo's perspective. You could even go a step further and write it in such a way that although Renzo sees what he sees, perhaps present further possibilities for readers to speculate on that Renzo, who is essentially the narrator, might not actually notice or consider himself. Makes it fun.
3) Some time given over to the more peripheral characters, setting up small instances of interaction that you can later continue to build upon chapter after chapter can really help them all to feel more 'alive' - more real, and all it takes is a few sentences here and there. As I continue to read through the ongoing briefing, I can't help but feel like you've spent so much time talking about various characters with little importance to the immediate cast, who it would have been nice to focus on before getting stuck into the heavy wall of exposition. There's talk of clearing space hulks, exterminatus and all manner of other things that would have made for far more exciting starting points. Of course, I also know that doing things this way around means a slow build up with large payoff later, but nonetheless for a first chapter, it is a very slow read. More varied sentence structure, and a focus on only the most pertinent facts - perhaps even creating a sense of mystery by having the captain attend the briefing and then merely informing Renzo of the bare minimum on a need-to-know basis would have sped up the process, and perhaps given you room to allude to the greater crisis without getting bogged down in exposition.
4) Renzo's knowledge and experience... I feel it could have been shown to us in a better way. He's giving advice out in the auditorium to an inexperienced captain. That makes sense, bit of role-reversal with him ironically holding a lower rank than his less capable superior. However, he is in the room with watch commanders who are to Renzo what Renzo is to that overconfident and ignorant captain. I'm sure you see what I'm getting at. It just undermines the ones in control giving the orders and dropping exposition bombs know so little compared to our protagonist. Next time, I suggest showing Renzo's capability through actions rather than words. That's the most important rule for a good writer after all - show, don't tell.
5) Conclusion. Ended up rambling on longer than I anticipated and perhaps ended up being far more critical than I originally planned, but I got on a roll and somehow I get the impression that this is the type of response you were hoping for. I haven't read chapter 2 yet so I can't comment on it, but I will get to it when I have the time (and when I am less tired... it's been a long couple of days). Despite my wall of text ripping into that first chapter, I do want you to know that I am interested and invested in this story now. As promised, I will be following where this goes. The most important thing I want you to take away from all of this is that less is more. Ease us into this story as it progresses, have a clear and concise objective to achieve with each chapter and focus on that. Don't get bogged down in exposition as much and try to explore methods of conveying imagery and characterization outside of paragraph upon paragraph of description.
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Post by halonachos on Aug 22, 2016 23:09:45 GMT
Will second the opinion on characters expressing themselves, it was rather verbose and trying to cram so much info about so many people takes time. You're not going to be able to get everyone cut in immediately and fully fleshed out, try adding a bit each time they're seen with casual observations or descriptions of their movements. Once you establish that then it gets easier for a reader to imagine how a character is acting and you don't necessarily have to get into details about it.
For example when you establish the character of the character then phrases like "Yes sir" can change due to the reader's perception of the character. If the character has been shown to have contempt for authority then it can be interpreted as most likely having a sarcastic tone to it, if the character is on the straight and narrow then it can be interpreted as being genuine.
Some of the laughter is a bit off and doesn't particularly belong, I understand that you're going for the fact that they find humor in different things but pulling a knife on someone tends to never be a laughing matter even when it's followed up with a line meant to be witty. Another thing to consider is that witty doesn't always mean funny and finding comedy in the absurd should still relate to actual comedy. Like two soldiers walking down the street find a smoldering buttocks with nothing attached to it after an explosion, one of them points it out and says that's it's a hot piece of ass. It's a horrific moment with a pun attached to it and establishes that the guy making the comment isn't phased by the sight or smell of burning human flesh and even makes a joke about it. People can guess if he's sadistic or jaded from that comment and later actions would prove which he is to the reader.
Oh and try to find a consistency with some characters. I know it's only the second chapter but I feel that you're setting up a rivalry between the Salamander and Space Wolf, the Salamander hasn't contradicted himself much but the Space Wolf has. I've written a Space Wolf of course and they tend to be proud of their own chapter more than any other and the Space Wolf has so far been a mix of Space Wolf and just plain drunkard who likes to fight. Casting aside bias for my own character, having a Space Wolf character reference another one with some reverence only to say that someone from a different chapter is much better than him is weird for a Space Wolf. Here you were just commenting on how great of a warrior he was only to almost completely ignore that and say that someone is hands down so much better. Really that may just be coming from the phrasing but wording is important here and that moment would be like the Salamander character being okay with a dirty bolter that isn't properly maintained.
Otherwise keep it up. Just remember to keep it short and your characters consistent.
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Post by Darko on Aug 23, 2016 0:19:25 GMT
Good points, nachos, glad to see others giving input! Hopefully this encourages other users to start posting more of their own work once they see it can and will get responses. We're a community of writers after all, and offering constructive criticism and support to one-another as well as enjoying each other's work is at the core of what this site represents. It's good to see discussions like this beginning to take shape again.
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Post by Deadshot on Aug 23, 2016 8:16:05 GMT
Darko , halonachos Thanks for all the feedback guys, you've really given me a lot to think about with my further writing, so I hope I can implement it into the next chapter. Currently in work right now so will keep it brief but consider these weekly Chapters a first draft, with a second draft presented as a complete work after its finished.7 I will also say that anything that you point out (like, for example, laughing at pulling a knife) that doesn't make sense, rather than trying to recorrect it and replace which will be a mess trying to track, I'll just try to clarify in the next chapter or further along in the story. For example, without trying to spoil elements, Ragnar and H'ghar have this rivalry and have been close friends for a long time. Things like these are just part of their "in" jokes between each other (hence why no one reacted besides the newcomer Renzo)
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Post by Warork on Aug 23, 2016 17:18:11 GMT
First of all, Deadshot, just wanted to say sorry for not popping in and saying hi sooner. Been real busy around these parts.
Second of all, I'm actually kind of surprised that I'm enjoying this as much as I am. Before you take offense to that statement, please allow me to explain. Firstly its been a while since I've seen space marines written with any sort of actual grasp on what they ought to be like so points for that, obviously. Secondly, I don't know if you remember much about the actual Deathwatch game that this is based on...but I recall it being an outright mess. I don't regret being a part of it but I do regret that it wasn't as great as it could have been and have been itching to get the chance to revisit it ever since.
That said, when I kept reading how you've written team Gernhardt as some sort of legendary force to be reckoned with...I kinda laughed. I mean, you remember how dysfunctional we all were right? We spent more time almost killing each other than we did the enemy.
But I suppose it HAS been a long time between then and now in regards to this story. Who knows? Maybe in all that time Gernhardt's namesake ended up becoming what you've described it as. All I know is Sev would have probably enjoyed that...unfortunately outside of this story I doubt Killteam Gernhardt is going to see the light of day.
What I'm trying to say is this is a rather intriguing start and I'll be sure to read whatever comes next.
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Post by Deadshot on Aug 23, 2016 22:47:09 GMT
First of all, Deadshot, just wanted to say sorry for not popping in and saying hi sooner. Been real busy around these parts. Second of all, I'm actually kind of surprised that I'm enjoying this as much as I am. Before you take offense to that statement, please allow me to explain. Firstly its been a while since I've seen space marines written with any sort of actual grasp on what they ought to be like so points for that, obviously. Secondly, I don't know if you remember much about the actual Deathwatch game that this is based on...but I recall it being an outright mess. I don't regret being a part of it but I do regret that it wasn't as great as it could have been and have been itching to get the chance to revisit it ever since. That said, when I kept reading how you've written team Gernhardt as some sort of legendary force to be reckoned with...I kinda laughed. I mean, you remember how dysfunctional we all were right? We spent more time almost killing each other than we did the enemy. But I suppose it HAS been a long time between then and now in regards to this story. Who knows? Maybe in all that time Gernhardt's namesake ended up becoming what you've described it as. All I know is Sev would have probably enjoyed that...unfortunately outside of this story I doubt Killteam Gernhardt is going to see the light of day. What I'm trying to say is this is a rather intriguing start and I'll be sure to read whatever comes next. Hey Wark, long time! Glad to have you on board and I'm glad you've given me the feedback you have, means I'm doing exactly what I set out to do (with some errors as the guys have touched on of course). I remember the game fairly well, my memory's failing me as I age (senile at 19, fs), but I remember most of what Renzo was involved in. Call it rose-tinted spectacles, but I never found it that much of a mess! Sure it kinda sidetracked with that Chaos plot but it had great moments and I'm so sad the game has been lost. I actually came across the old site a few days ago by total chance. My logins still work and everything, just everything is completely empty. Sad sad times. Anyway, glad you're enjoying it man and hope you'll continue to enjoy it over the next few months!
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Post by Deadshot on Aug 28, 2016 11:10:19 GMT
Hey there fellas, you might have noticed Chapter 3 is up a few hours erly today, I'm going out with my dad tonight so I won't be home at normal posting time, so I decided to go early instead. Hope you guys like this chapter better than the last 2! darkstormroleplaying.freeforums.net/post/12243/thread
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